Episode 125: Hollywood, Body Image, & Creating an Ethical Talent Agency with Val Emanuel
Episode 125: Hollywood, Body Image, & Creating an Ethical Talent Agency with Val Emanuel
Val Emanuel is a mother, earth activist, and founder of Rif Care and Role Models Management.
In this conversation we talk about:
Val’s personal body image story: growing up a child model in LA, overcoming sexual abuse, eating disorders, drug use, and low self-worth.
The impact of Hollywood culture on her self-esteem, self-censorship, and body autonomy as an adolescent.
Her experience as a black woman, how this has shaped her identity, & the problems that stem from not addressing the “middle skin color”.
Finding recovery and the most influential steps within her healing journey.
The importance of choosing friends & environments that foster the person that you want to be.
Letting go of the fear of how others will judge you and living an honest, authentic life.
Money, dieting, body image, fame- the disordered intersections between these life areas and how control plays a part.
The role of social media in business, influencer culture, and how we can create a healthier relationship with these platforms.
The journey of building her company, Role Models Management, and her mission behind creating an ethical talent agency.
Why comparison is the thief of joy and how to begin appreciating what you have.
Connect with our guest…
Ready to feel more comfortable in your skin?
TRANSCRIPTION Episode 125: Hollywood, Body Image, & Creating an Ethical Talent Agency with Val Emanuel
Katelyn:
All right, Val Emanuel. Hi. Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.
Val:
Thanks so much for having me.
Katelyn:
I'm so excited to hear your story. And like we were just talking about before recording your entrepreneurial journey and just so many things in your life are so fascinating to me. And so I'm, I'm really looking forward. Let's just jump into your body image story. The first question that we asked everybody on the show is your first body awareness moment. So what did that moment look like for you where you realized I'm in a body? Apparently, this means something in the world that I'm living in. And from that moment, how did it impact your relationship with yourself, whether it was through dieting, or your relationship with food, your body image, anything?
Val:
You know, I feel like most people who were born in the 90s had a lot of potty awareness when the Spice Girls came out. Because it was the first time that I mean, in our generation, we really saw women showing their bodies off in a certain way. And everybody wanted to emulate their styles. And I think when you're a little girl, you kind of realize when you're trying to emulate a celebrity style that you don't necessarily have that celebrities body, right. So I remember dressing in Skechers, and really short skirts and crop tops. And then from there, the backlash that happens with it, whether it was from my parents, you can't wear that out of the house, you can't show that much skin, people are gonna look at you X y&z way, and realizing very early from before the age of 10, that my body could possibly be sexualized, just realizing that from what I was wearing, and also unfortunately, I did have a sexual abuse situation. And when I was very young, about nine years old, so then I went into a whole different mode of a few years of really covering up my body, trying to be completely invisible. So I go back and forth between wanting to be invisible, wearing big shirts, wearing huge T shirts to the beach, and then going to school and I would say acting out but also showing my style, you know what I mean? Like cutting my, my jean shorts and sewing them into skirts and cutting my tops and making them have cutouts on the side, and making my own thongs or denim, and doing all those things. So I was actually pretty confused about my body image from from very early on. And then after that I got into modeling. And that was even more confusing, because I always looked a little bit older. So by the time I was 14, I was kind of, I would say doing more mature modeling, not necessarily sexy, or anything like that, but being portrayed as a woman. And you know, when you're a kid and you start working, you kind of feel like I'm grown, I'm an adult, and wanting to make my own decisions for myself when it came to what I was wearing. Because, you know, as a kid, there's also not many decisions you can make about your life when you're younger. And so what you wear and how you show your body is a huge part of that decision making process. So I think figuring out my style, figuring out how to navigate the world, and do I want to be a sexual being, do I not want to be a sexual being? There was definitely a lot of confusion there.
Katelyn:
I love that you mentioned the Spice Girls. I don't think anybody's ever said that before. And I don't even think I've ever considered their influence in my life from a body image perspective. And as soon as you said that, I thought holy shit 100% I mean it, you're spot on. I feel like that was so true for me as well to just having these role models, who were using their bodies as a form of influence and sexiness and performance in a way that I certainly had never seen before as a kid. So that really that's so interesting. And the dance that you mentioned between wanting to cover up and wanting to express yourself. That's, so interesting. Tell me about your transition into modeling. How did you get discovered? Or was it something that you just wanted to get into and begged your mom to do?
Val:
I actually got discovered when I was I think two or three years old in a mall in Culver City, California. So that's a whole different story. But I started modeling very early and I mean, I don't know if it really affected body but self esteem for sure. It's weird when you're a kid and you know, you have an agent who's like you can't skateboard because I don't want you to fall and bruise yourself or, you know, I don't want you to get cuts. If you get cuts. That's ugly. I'm not Kids get cuts kids fall. So that was also really confusing because I remember doing things and thinking I can't get braces, I can't get cut because I have an audition. So there was definitely that. And then I didn't do it for a few years because I actually went out for it. Remember when the Lion King first came on Broadway, I was a huge deal. I auditioned for Nola and I was in I think the third audition, but I cannot sing. My singing sounds like someone is like, throwing, you know, throwing something out of an airplane. Like it's just awful. My voice is hoarse is proud. And it's it's horrific. So I did finally go to the last audition, I danced, I shook, my personality acted and the singing was shit. So I got cut. And I remember doing the singing and just knowing that I was really bad at it. So I ran out halfway through my song, just, you know, not really a lot of self esteem at that point. And really kind of writing everything on if I get this will change my life. If I get this, I'll be a Disney kid, if I get this, XY and Z. And so I wanted to get something materially that would change my insides. And also possibly, you know, let's be real, the trajectory of your family when you become a Disney kid. And that didn't happen. And so instead of going back out there, for a long time, I just completely was like, I don't want to do that anymore at all. And then as I grew older, I got taller, there was a point where like, I had maybe a weird body moment you don't even when you're in a growth spurt, and you're going through that awkward phase. And then I just became this very, like tall, slim person. And then again, I have people contacting me about modeling. And I was like, oh, no, I don't want to do that. And then America's Next Top Model came out and was like, I do want to do this, you know, I want to be on TV, I want to be, I guess an influencer at the time. And I was also very into creating my own content, my friend, and I would do YouTube videos. So I mean, all of this too, and you're watching yourself on camera is very confusing. It's confusing, because you get told no, a lot. And then it's confusing, because people are paying you for what you look like. And then it's confusing, because the people who are hiring you are telling you your nose is too big and your hairline is too far back. And, you know, you don't have a big enough gap between your thighs. And they're telling you at 14 to get plastic surgery. And these are all things that happened to me. So there's a lot of confusion in that industry. And my daughter is seven years old, and I really didn't want her to be in it for a really long time. But now that I've been a talent agent, I feel like I kind of know how to work around those things, and how to find the right people and get her only in jobs that are for her not trying to put her into a box of what someone else wants her to be, which a lot of agents do. They want their clients to lose weight and dye their hair and get nose jobs. And it's like, you know, there are jobs where they don't have to do that. You know, there are people who, you know, like the rebel Wilson's the Melissa McCarthy's where they can just be themselves. And of course, sometimes people go through whatever transformations. But at that time, I didn't know that I could just be myself and still be accepted. So I went through that for a very long time. And that was challenging so that I quit again from like the age of 18 to 20.
Katelyn:
It's so interesting, Val, because you said you got into modeling when you were two or three, right?
Val:
Yeah, so young.
Katelyn:
And I mean, your brain is literally forming. But it's such a formative time, not to mention all of the adolescence and the development around that and how you're learning to be in your body. And so it makes sense why there would be all of this confusion, I think most people are confused, even when you're not in a performance setting about how to be and how to show up in in your body. It's just it's awkward growing into your skin. But the feedback that you mentioned, you received a I can only imagine I kind of have a similar story to because I grew up in acting. But just feeling like you have to be a certain way or not being able to do certain things because of the role that you are playing or wanting to go out for or things like that. You grew up in LA. So how did that impact all of this? Were all of your other friends into modeling and acting and things like this? Or were you kind of the only one going at it on your own? What was the environment like?
Val:
Oh my god, Los Angeles is a very toxic place for body image. When I was eight years old, we had a what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, everybody had to go and do a picture and have it laminated and bring it to school. And I wrote out this list of all the surgeries that I wanted to have done so that I could be in Playboy. And my parents thought it was hilarious. And it kind of is funny when I look at it, but it's actually pretty sad. I've met Larry Flynt. One day at, were at the Beverly Hills Hotel where they're having brunch with my family. We were not rich, but my parents every Sunday would take us somewhere nice so that we didn't feel so poor. So we were there. And we met Larry Flynt. And he told me I was beautiful. And he was surrounded by, you know, like the most beautiful woman I've ever seen with huge, you know, fake boobs, and stripper heels and ice blonde hair. And I was like, Oh, my God, when I grow up, I want to be an hustler. And besides the fact that I'd already been kind of exposed to those type of magazines from my mom's teenage brothers underneath her bed, right? So she was very confusing images that girls getting that I certainly got from media. But then when you're in LA, it's a totally different situation. Because you're not getting these images from the media. These images are what you see even me growing up with, you know, my brother being on a soccer team, with Pam Anderson, son, and everyone being obsessed with Pam Anderson, and just being like, Hi, my mom doesn't look like that, you know? Or, Wow, she gets so much attention or Wow, all these people think something about her. But I'm seeing her and she Yeah, she's, she doesn't look like all the other moms on the soccer team. So it's, it's interesting being in LA because it's, it's in front of your face, you're used to kids getting those jobs between the ages of you know, 11 and 15. And you're used to girls carrying really expensive handbags, the OC was also a super popular show, in middle school, early high school. And so you saw these images of kids in Southern California. And then everybody in the country followed the fashion. But I'd say in LA, it's different. Like the kids actually are getting surgery and dyeing their hair and getting hair extensions. I mean, spending $1,000 on hair extensions on high school was normal.
Katelyn:
Yeah. So I mean, all of this is really interesting. And the question that's burning in my mind right now is, I want to know about your experience living in LA from a diversity standpoint, because all of these things that you're referencing, are all like, a very specific aesthetic, white, blonde, physically certain way women. So growing up from just a racial standpoint, did you see yourself reflected anywhere? Did you feel like that was important to you to step into the entertainment industry to diversify? Was that even on your radar at all? Or did you feel like you needed to change to become more like these white women? Where, where does that play a role in your body image?
Val:
Oh, yeah, for sure. It's always been really interesting. As someone who is a black model, because I was told for a long time that I had white features, which I don't believe I do, I don't. But I knew very early on that I was different. My dad, he's from the Caribbean, African, mostly Nigerian man. And he's like one of the darkest skin people that most people have ever seen in their life. So people would walk up to my dad on the street. And I don't think they do this now. Because they just No, don't friggin do that. But they'd be like, Oh my God, why is your skin so dark? Like I've never seen skin this dark in my life? And then they'd be like, why are your kids lighter? Like? It would they would just start asking him questions about being African. It was like, I remember this very clearly. And so that was really awkward, because I realized that I was different. And then people will also comment, like, on my, to my mom and dad, thank God that they have, you know, their mom's skin down. I think either they have their mom's nose like my mom's a quarter Irish and she's also black and Native American. And then I had my abuela, who is mostly Native American, she's very short. She's got copper skin, she's got really slim eyes. And I thought she was beautiful. But I realized in elementary school, that she looks like all of my friends, Danny's. You know, so, I was really confused, honestly, growing up because I had people telling me that I was pretty for a black girl. Some people had told me that I had white features or Middle Eastern features or whatever. And they were telling me that that's why I was beautiful. I thought I was beautiful because I looked like my African grandma or like I had features like my grandma was mostly Native American. And I was being told the opposite. Which I did actually therapy about last year because that was really confusing to me. And then you know, also I have had plastic surgery. So I don't think I did that for necessarily a Caucasian aesthetic, but we also have to think about things like wearing my hair straight, which I mostly do for convenience, because curly hair is extremely tangley. And I'm like, if I could just make my hair straight, and I don't have to detangle my hair for a week, but also realizing it is more socially acceptable. And people do talk to me differently. My hair is straight versus curly. And people also know don't come up to me in touch my hair. But back in the day, when I wore my hair curly, it was like, I got so many, so many questions about it, it was out of the norm of what was the normal beauty standard, which was straight and white.
Katelyn:
Yeah, and especially during, like the timeline that we're referencing here, the OC, the Spice Girls, I mean, the amount of diversity across the entertainment industry was significantly lacking. I mean, it still is compared to back then- it's shifted at least a smidge. But yeah, that is so confusing. And I'm always curious to when you were going through that? Were you keeping it to yourself? Or did you feel like you could talk about it with your parents? Or were your friends kind of going through similar things? Or did you have anybody in your life that you felt like you could open up to around some of these insecurities?
Val:
Not really, I felt, I felt bad about, you know, I felt like also back then there was a lot of like light skinned dark skin, things on the internet and humor and everything. And I kind of felt like I didn't fit into either of the boxes of being light skinned or, or dark skinned. I'm like, a very brown person. And I mean, this is very much referring to black culture. But I feel like there's, you know, there's a few different boxes of skin tones, and I fit in the middle. So I kind of pass those conversations of light skinned, dark skinned, and I'm just in like a whole nother category. And so that was also confusing. And I feel like a lot of people still don't talk about that category. But we kind of just fly by the radar when radar when it comes to those talks and culture about skin tone.
Katelyn:
Let's talk about that. Because we've never talked about it on the podcast before. So what, what do we need to be talking about when it relates to that middle category? And what do you want people to know, especially as somebody who can kind of identify with that.
Val:
I think what we need to talk about with the whole, I mean, just the fact that there's so much diversity in blackness. And I think that we definitely need to talk about that. And there's still and there's also like stereotypes and personality types that are put on people with light skin or dark skin that I'd say are not necessarily given to people who are in the middle category. And so I think people in the middle category such as myself, it's so weird even talking about it because it feels stupid, but it's a real thing.
Katelyn:
I don't think it's stupid. I mean, you're allowed to feel that way. I'm super curious about this. And I've, felt like it's something that I want to learn more about and people's experience about this as well too. And I appreciate you sharing more.
Val:
Yeah, I feel like my only job in this really is to when I hear people in my own community talk about it too deep bucket. And it's really hard. I feel like even sometimes, you know, you're here and your own family. When when my daughter was born, for example, I feel like she's someone who I don't really know if she's light skinned or brown skin. I really don't know that I heard people already talking about her skin tone. And you heard this with Mary. I mean with credit with what's his name? You heard this with Prince Harry and Megan Markel, talking about like, what skin tone is the kid gonna be? Oh, yeah. Because people know that the color of your skin can possibly change your future, let's be real, I think less now than ever before. But people who have been, you know, in the dark skinned category, for whatever reason were seen as not as beautiful. And not as you know, not as assimilated to whatever type of African American culture I mean, I mean, to American culture. So there's a lot in that and I feel like it's, it's crazy that people have thought that way. And I think that's still the thinking. I've always been the one who was like out in the sun trying to get darker all the time. And then I had my friend's moms being like put on sunscreen, why would you want to be dark? So I was super confused. When people said being dark skinned was a bad thing. And so I just feel like I always have to stick up for for people who are darker skinned because that was my dad. You know, those are my aunts that you're talking about. That's me that you're talking about with my daughter. That you're talking about.
Katelyn:
How did you get to the place that you are today? I get the confusion I hear it's so loud and clear in your story. And I can't imagine anybody having an experience like this and not being confused from a body image perspective, getting feedback around how you look from all of these angles. It's like the perfect equation. But you're so self assured now. And I'm sure that there are still things you're unpacking. And it's a never ending journey in terms of body image for all of us. But you have this confidence now. And it seems like you've gotten to a place where you've really released a lot of that confusion and stepped into this conviction and certainty for yourself. So how did you even begin to transition into becoming curious about wanting to move in that direction for yourself? And what were some things that came up that got you to where you are today?
Val:
I left that a huge part of my story, which was when I was 14, and I got back into modeling, I did go through an eating disorder, multiple eating disorders, it was, you know, anorexia and bulimia as well as tons of drug use, which I went to rehab twice for between the age of 14 and 18 was like, a whole different story. But it was honestly through that process of rehab therapy 12 Step, I've now been clean for 14 years of things, but it was that work with myself and God, who whatever you want to call it, the universe, just really realizing the things that I was doing to myself the trauma that had been done to me, and then my part and how I was basically punishing myself for a long time, by hating my body by doing things that were unhealthy for me, and stopping those behaviors one by one, and they don't all leave at the same time. So I would say first, it was like stopping the drinking and drug use behavior at the age of 17, right. And then at the age of 21, that's when I stopped the eating disorder behavior, I went to a 12 step group for eating disorders. And then I went through another phase of like getting over my codependency, being in an unhealthy relationship, but also realizing that if I still wasn't my codependency that left me in a position to possibly relapse or my eating disorder, or possibly relapse on drinking. So I had to handle all those things one by one. And I feel like it wasn't until two years ago, that I really started to deal with all of those things. At the same time, it was like whack a mole, like, something would come up, I do therapy, or I just cut the, you know, the behavior, cold turkey, whatever. And then another thing would come up, and another thing would come up. And it's like, if I'm daily in the maintenance work, which is like taking daily inventory, calling my mentor, reading spiritual books, for me, it's going to church, it doesn't have to be for anyone else. Having an accountability group. I do a lot, I wonder if everybody else is fucking much because I do a lot to be on top of it. Like, there is a lot. So I've got to do a lot.
Katelyn:
That's funny that you said that because I just wrote an email out yesterday. And at the end, I just popped in some of my favorite practices that kind of ground me and it for this specific topic around this email. And it was like 10 different things. And then I had to give a disclaimer, at the end, I was like, this is a lot and I don't do it all at once. And this doesn't mean that everybody has to do these things. But I hear you it's like there's there's a lot of moving pieces to stay grounded and you know, there's in healing and in recovery and all of these things, there's a lot of things that you learn over the years that just kind of go into the toolkit, and so I always say there's a lot in there, but really picking and choosing what you need at certain times is is like the most effective strategy for using it all.
Val:
Oh totally. There's some times where I don't have to write for two months and then there's some days where I cannot go to sleep without writing because my brain is we Reena rewiring to a negative thought every five minutes and I need to get it on paper.
Katelyn:
I hear you loud and clear I and I think that's so awesome because that's I don't know about you Val but that has been so healing for me in getting to this place where I could just release my grip on things a bit where I didn't feel like it had to be okay I have to do my morning routine this way every single day and I have to journal or else it won't go according to plan where it really can just be what do I need? How am I feeling today? What tool is going to serve me best and it's not all going to fall apart if it doesn't go the exact same way every single day. We have a lot in common. I can tell your story is Yeah, interesting. So my ears perked up when you said accountability group and mentor and all of these things because one of the most common themes that I hear from guests on the show and clients that I work with and myself is how much our environment impacts our relationship with ourselves. So when you started to transition out of the Hollywood scene and the drug scene, and maybe some of the people who are influencing those eating disorder behaviors and into an environment where it was different than that, how, how did that impact you? Or what did you notice?
Val:
I noticed that I had to change my friend group multiple times, even in this last two years, I had to change my friend group, because I decided that, you know, I've been single for the last two years, and I decided I wasn't going to date how I used to date. So I couldn't be hanging around girls, for example, who were like, just going on dates. And like, I don't know, participating, participating in behavior that I felt was personally toxic or not self respecting. So when I found these new friend groups, I just started being accountable with them. I would call people I would text people, for example, I would always be in Whole Foods in Venice. I remember when it switched from being the Hovind in Venice on Lincoln used to be like this huge, big lox. And then when I was growing up, it turned into a Whole Foods and it changed the community. And I would be there. And I would meet people from the neighborhood. And I was like, this girl is super cool. She meditates in the morning, and she goes running and X, Y, and Z. And then I would call her and be like, I want to do with you. It wasn't just liking and following on Facebook, that was it at the time, or MySpace, whatever the hell, I was putting my hand out, because I had a mentor who was asking me to do that. She's like, Hey, I actually know a girl who loves sewing and loves bike riding. Here's her number, you guys need to be friends. And then I actually took that and did it. It does take action to build community. And then very recently, at the beginning of COVID, I found a Bible study, which, for me is great. And I told everyone in the Bible study, like, Look, I just want to tell you right now, I was like, I've had a lot of sex done a lot of drugs used to work at a strip club. So I'm not going to talk like everybody in this group. And then I realized that there was a lot of girls like me in that group. So I felt very comfortable talking, however, the hell I wanted to talk. But I've been so afraid to go to a group like that for years, because I thought I would be judged. And it's just so turned out to be the best group of uplifting women that I've ever met. And a lot of them with similar experiences were like, we get together and talk about boys and curse. And like, you know what I mean? It's so fun. And my mind was blocking me from going there for 10 years. And I'm like, what a waste of 10 years that I thought I'd be judged. I said, to find the right group of people.
Katelyn:
I think that is so powerful. And I'm so glad you use this example of your authenticity. Because when we speak our truth, unapologetically, when we really kick that fear of judgment to the curb, and just step into our authenticity, that is not only so powerful for ourselves individually, but for everybody else around because just like you said, there were so many people in those groups in that group saying, me too, me too. Me too, probably breathing out a sigh of relief, that you said it when they've been wanting to perhaps. So what do you think changed that really gave you the confidence to do something like that to get past the fear of judgment and really just own your truth?
Val:
Pain, honestly, I mean, if you're in enough pain, like if you have a fire under your ass, you're gonna move. But it's not everyone. I've realized that I see a lot of friends with fires under their ass, and they just sit there and get burned for years. And I don't get it. For me, it was pain. It was also YouTube, I feel like YouTube is the perfect place to find community. I don't really I mean, tic tock is now trying to build community like this. But there's nowhere like YouTube, I started to find channels with women who were talking about the things I wanted to do and who I wanted to be. They were the women I wanted to be. And so I was like, What are they doing? And how can I emulate that. And some of them were talking about therapy, and some of them had really cool groups of friends and, and then I found, you know, one friend who she, I guess she started going to this one church, and then she invited me, and I started listening online for a year. And then I physically went and then I started doing, you know, the zoom and everything. But before that, I was pretty used to going to groups, like I said, 12 Step groups and stuff like that. But I had been away from it for a very long time when I was in, you know, my past relationship, which was it was pretty abusive. My ex did not like me going to groups. You know, he didn't like me going to therapy. He didn't like me going to meetings, anything like that. It was when you're with someone who's unhealthy when you get better, it's a threat to them. So for a long time, I didn't do that because I didn't want to cause problems. Have my relationship. And so once I realized I was going to get out of that relationship, and I was in enough pain to just be like, Fuck it, I don't care if this is going to make us get into a fight, sometimes it would turn out to be a physical fight, or whatever. I was like, I don't care, I'm going to do it because I knew I needed to get there so that I could leave that situation and go through another, you know, metamorphosis into the next phase of my life. So it was definitely
Katelyn:
I love that you said that. And I'm also curious when you started saying, fuck it, I'm just doing it. I'm saying the thing I'm doing the thing I'm, I'm really, I'm just going to live a very honest life. What did you learn? Like, what's your biggest takeaway from the beginning stages of that, that you might have even thought to yourself? Like, oh, my God, I wish I would have known this when I was sitting in that fear. Does anything come up?
Val:
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I guess I would have known I think I was being so dishonest with myself for a long time that it's not like I was sitting there, like, I have this pain. And if I could just reach out to someone it could change. I was lying to myself for a very long time about the situation that I was in the relationship I was in how much pain I was in how much financial fear I was in. So I don't really know what got me from being in that fear to going to fuck it. Anyway, I honestly think people were praying for me, they were, and I started to pray for myself. And like I said, I just started listening to people on YouTube who were on the other side, I knew I wanted to be there. I didn't really know what the problem was. But there's this great thing called search engines where no matter what emotion you're feeling, you can type it in. And there are people who will have solutions for them. And you know, self-help is a whole different topic in its own, but I do you believe that you have to put in a mustard seed, and then the tree will grow. Even if you don't water it, sometimes it will grow, you just have to be slightly open, just like you know, when you crack the door, and then the wind blows it open. Like that is what you need to be. And so maybe you're listening to this, or one of your other episodes, I don't know. And that's cracking that door open. But that's really what it was, for me is like getting on YouTube, listening to people. And then being honest with myself.
Katelyn:
Oh, god, that's so good. I love that. And I love the I still believe that to where when you have the conviction to just say something that you want or type something that you want to write it out. Like that is the first step. And from what you're sharing in your story to I can really gather it's also just taking that incremental action is taking the next step, taking the next step, taking the next step. There's so much here. And I am also really interested in how social media plays a role in this because you mentioned YouTube, and especially right now we're we're in our where we're at in our culture, like this is really fascinating. Because you and I didn't have social media, when we were growing up the Spice Girls didn't have social media when they were famous. This is a completely new thing that is really impacting body image in a lot of different ways, both positive and negative. So what's your take? First of all, how did it impact you, if at all from a positive or negative standpoint? And where do you land on it today? Do you think it's a source of good or evil or somewhere in between?
Val:
I think social media can be a place for inspiration. But you have to be really mindful of what you're aspiring to. I, when I first got into social media was really aspiring to be an influencer, I'm not gonna lie at first, I didn't care about it at all. And then I realized that people were using it to make money. And then I realized maybe I don't know what, six, seven years ago that the way people were growing really fast was by changing their body. And I just really was thinking long term. And I never wanted to do that. There are times where I probably could have went and like, had a BBL or had a boob job or done some of those things. And I was like, I would have grown my following, but like, it would not have even been the audience that I wanted. So you really have to get quiet with yourself. And this is why these practices are so important of prayer, meditation, writing, reading, self reflection, therapy, whatever. Because if I was being honest with myself, I didn't want the trajectory of what I was seeing. But the ego wanted to be fed by what the results these girls were getting. You know what I mean? I don't know if that makes sense.
Katelyn:
No, it makes total sense. So I'm curious for your story. What was your ego craving was, I mean, are you able to have you landed on that at all? Like, is it connection or financial wealth or approval or attention? Or like where do you think that was coming from for you?
Val:
Yeah, I think for me, it was really financial. I don't know. I'm super Capricorns like everything's about money. I never like I always say that I don't like when I see likes or if something starts to go viral or like a lot of people start to comment. I don't necessarily feel dopamine rush, I feel sick to my stomach. Which is not the feeling that you want to feel if you're a social media influencer, which is why I only posted like, twice a month for years, you know? Yeah, I know.
Katelyn:
That's so interesting, because I remember you saying earlier in your story, when you were a kid, you even had that, that awareness of if I become a Disney actor, I know that will change the lifestyle for my family. And you didn't save from a financial standpoint. But I would imagine that you were aware of that to some extent, even if you couldn't label it that way at the time. So how do you like did that play a role in, in any of these phases of your life, or your body image journey? It all just kind of like the, I guess the strategy of of what your desires are in terms of that financial success at all? Does that question make sense?
Val:
Yeah, for sure. So I think with my body image journey, I mean, this is Los Angeles. I'm just gonna put it out there. A lot of women here date, very wealthy men. And so you feel like you need to look a certain way to fit in that that aesthetic to date wealthy men. And that was also it for a long time. I mean, I love fitness. Now, I feel like it's way more about mental health. But for a long time, I kept up my appearance and my body for whoever I was dating because I wanted to be arm candy. Because I knew if I was arm candy, then I would have be taken care of financially. And so every move that I made, body wise was always for financial reasons. It was never to be healthy. It was never to feel energized. It wasn't for any of that stuff. As a matter of fact, I was doing things that were the opposite. Even when I was over the eating disorder, I would do things like keto, or, you know what I mean? Like the, the lemon water and the Cayenne, I would always go to like trends, things, and it was always so I can try to stay as skinny as possible to fit into an aesthetic that would bring me the most material gain. That's what it was about for me. Because I wasn't even when my friends were active on social media, I wasn't even act I was, I couldn't give a crap less. I was like, Look, I'm dating Rick. Rick was in Miami, girls in Miami look like XY and Z. So I gotta look like girls in Miami to keep Rick, that was it for me. And that's really also like you're basing people loving you on looking a certain way that's extremely toxic.
Katelyn:
It's so interesting, our relationship with food and our bodies, there are so many parallels to so many other things in life, like finances. And, you know, like the through line is almost always some sense of control or security, right? Like just feeling safe, feeling secure. And if you look at like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, this totally makes sense. Like we are primarily wired to crave these things. But in modern society, it kind of manifests in really disordered ways. I definitely have so much that I relate to with that on a personal level, especially from a financial perspective as well, too. That's so fascinating. I'm also really curious how you pivoted into your talent agency, what part of your story does that fall in? Were you in treatment and doing at the same time? Was it afterwards? And what gave you the idea to even start that?
Val:
No, I was- that was much after. So I got sober really young when I was 17. I'm 31 now. And the agency started because I've gone through all these phases of my life, right from being a model to being a debutante to dating a billionaire. And like being in that really fake life, to realizing that everything I was seeing all the girls, I was saying nobody was really happy. Nobody was really moving the needle on anything that was important. And I found my purpose, which was really my love for the environment, my love for the planet. I knew that there was a way to match my newfound love of these things, eco friendly brands and clean beauty and fashion. And you know what I mean, healthy lifestyle. I felt like I've kind of moved away from that whole debutante Miami la scene. And now I was living in Santa Monica and riding my bike and going back to school. And I wanted to get a group of women and men together who also were on that lifestyle. Like we're not Instagram booty influencers. We're talking about climate change. And so I had this idea, and I was talking about it at a lunch with a woman named Marcy Huizar off was like I want to start an agency or like I want to work with other agencies and help them find activist and It just so turned out on a whole nother side of the country, and Therese was talking about the same thing. And so she connected us via email. And that's how we started, we both had been in modeling. We both had seen, you know, the sexual abuse, the nonpayment, the lack, I mean, the drugs, and the lack of awareness from talent about what they were actually representing and talking about. And so we wanted to completely change that and have a platform for models who wanted to do that, who were actively using their, their platform, and then how can we connect them with brands that they can monetize this?
Katelyn:
Wow. So cool. So cool. And I mean, I wish that we could clone this and just make this the new standard for any kind of talent agency. And I also, I'm just so grateful that you're spearheading this. So tell us more. What's the name of your agency- how did you even put this together? What were the first steps? And what was the story with just kind of really launching it and what it looks like today?
Val:
Yeah, so with Role Models & Management, we were on different sides of the country. And so I first was like, what do we need to do, we need to file a DBA trademarks. And we did all those little types of things, you just see what licenses you need in your state. And with a talent agency in California, there are actually more laws than any other state, like in New York, they don't have to pay you for six months, they can charge you all these crazy fees. And so I wanted to be not only by the book, but doing above and beyond what other agencies were doing, which meant for me, you know, not taking 60 days to pay talent, being upfront about costs and fees, not charging talent costs and fees, unless they were working and they were necessary costs and fees. So we had to set up our contracts to be a little bit different. And then you have to submit these contracts to the state and make sure that they're like, Okay, this is approved, which takes sometimes hiring lawyers, but my mom went to law school. And so I felt like I was pretty good with litigious stuff and could write contracts myself, and I've written probably out of the, you know, 1000 contracts we've had to do over the last few years, I've probably written 800 of them. Wow. So it was really that just making sure that we had things in place where we really differentiate ourselves from other agencies because every business that launches has to have a right to exist. So with role models management, it's like, how are we different? How are we not just being in the noise, there's differentiate your brand. And then there are brands that just make noise. They're like, we're doing the same thing. But we're doing it different, but they're really not doing it differently.
Katelyn:
What you're describing- I mean, this is like the foundation of your company, and it sounds incredibly ethical, which honestly, is everything. That's how you build on what you're creating. So it's super admirable.
Val:
Yeah, I mean, it's not always easy when we started and even to now, it's like, there might be some companies who have, you know, five times as many clients as us because we're not gonna take on a fashion nova as a client, you know. So I think it is different, but a lot of our clients have multiple jobs, multiple careers, their speakers, they're, you know, they're in bands, they are teachers, they do so many different things. And there are some people too, who are full-time models, and they have us for their ethical and sustainability focused work or their, you know, their social media work that's with sustainable brands, and they have their other agencies, which they just work eCommerce with. So we've been able to also work with other agencies so that models can still have a career and be non-exclusive with us and do special projects that we produce or help with.
Katelyn:
It's amazing. And the beginning of this did it? Did it all come together? Because you had been in the industry for so long and had so many connections? Or was it kind of a grind, just getting clients and your first jobs booked? And everything what was? What was like the the first part of the story of this besides the litigious aspect?
Val:
Oh, no, honey, we had no clients, we had no one. But when I was a model, people actually really liked me. So they kept my information, and I kept theirs. So I would say if you're wanting to start your own business, you really do need to work in the industry that you want to start a business in before you just jump into it. And I'm saying that from having to businesses, so build up your build up your contacts and your connections before you start your own business that way. You've got a trusted list of mentors or people to help you our first clients we got, I don't even know how actually they just kind of saw our Instagram. They saw what we were doing. They hit us up but but we've filed our paperwork. And within a month, we booked our first two jobs, which was amazing. So that was great. And our models were really good about being like hey, I'm with this agency. Now if you want to book me, look me through this agency. A lot of them were our friends. So that's how we found most of our talent because I feel like a lot of our talent or like above, were at the time above what a new agency could get. People were like how the hell did you get this 90 Season model? I'm like, I met her in Malibu at dinner. And she likes me. You don't?
Katelyn:
I just love in the entertainment industry in general. And like, I just, it's fascinating to me, it always has been. So from a talent agent perspective, paint the picture for us, what comes first? Does the talent come first? Did the job come first? Even in the beginning stages of this, like if you did meet this 90 supermodel in Hawaii, and she was like, I want to work with you? Did you have a job that you could just book her on? Or did you have to go get a job to offer her? How does that work? And how do you keep that going? What's the like? What's the zoomed out version of the agency that you run?
Val:
Yeah, you need to get a LinkedIn no matter what business you're in. I feel like a lot of a lot of work came from LinkedIn. Also, some work came from Pinterest, which is pretty interesting. But you've got to put your clients out there and have a great website and everything. But you have to realize that unless a talent is like, a million dollar supermodel, talent is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to the booking process. And that sounds awful. But this is just the reality. There's the brand who comes to the producer, the producer who come to the creative, and the creative, who comes to casting and then last, the casting comes to the mark, the talent agency and talent agency goes to the model. So you're the last one there. And things move so quickly. Now it used to be like they had an idea. Two months later, you film it. And now it's like something just trended and they need to film it in three days. And they feel like you should have already been booked a week ago. How the hell does that math work out? It doesn't. So models feel extremely rushed. And it seems like you know, nowadays more than ever, because so many people want to be influencers in model. You know, sometimes you have to really try to negotiate rates for your clients. A lot of people think that you just come into modeling. And you know, these models who are booking Gucci are making millions of dollars. Let me tell you right now, Walmart and Target, pay a lot of money. Or mez and Gucci pay $150. And like no one wants to believe me. And I'm like, you want to do Fashion Week, okay, you're going to come back $3,000 in debt, but we'll send you. So I think with modeling, you really have to focus on getting commercial clients, which we have done, and clients who maybe book on a regular schedule, right, so they book, four quarters a year, which we have some clients who do, but most of them are commercial. So like I like I said, it comes with different trends, for example of so many things we filmed right before COVID, because it was the season to film all the commercials, and then COVID happened and all those things got scrapped. So maybe when we thought we were gonna be making 200 grand from residuals from commercials, it all got scrapped. So as a talent, your best thing to do is have other hobbies and be patient, because next week, you're like, could not be in anymore. And next week, there could be you know what I mean? Like, something could happen in the Asian community, that's very important. And all of a sudden, they want to hire more Asian actors for more representation. Yeah, so it's all about having patience. And as a talent agent trying to get my, my models and actors and activists opportunities, even when there are none. It's hard to create opportunities, but it's possible. Sometimes we have someone we think is great for your brand, because they represent your brand. And you should work with them. And it doesn't always work that way. But we've definitely had those opportunities come up as well.
Katelyn:
So one of the things that I love about your agency is the I mean, it's it's really based in ethics. And it's really driven by that need to connect ethical influencers with ethical companies or campaigns and things like that. So how does body image fit into this, especially with your journey? And what you know, and even what you mentioned about your daughter if she ever wanted to get into this? And I'm not sure if she is even today or not, but how do you discern when something feels off or when something feels like you need to step in and lead from a different perspective, or just your intuition around certain body image things or even diversity things? And inclusive opportunities or ethical pieces that come up that just feel a little off? What Where do you use your intuition with all this? Yeah,
Val:
I never want to talk to my talent about their body size. So I've never done that. Never once in my almost six years as an agent, no Have I told somebody that they had to lose weight and it's actually illegal in California to talk to models about losing weight without giving them like sound advice, which means like a nutritionist or something which agents don't do they're not going to go and hire a nutritionist. They're just going to tell you you're fat, you need to lose 20 pounds for free, come back to my office. But with me, I never, you know if I think someone won't work with me, I won't hire them. And that's not based on size or skin color or anything like that. It's mostly based on personality, social media, how they photograph and if I have clients who actually fit them, some clients come to our agency because of our models. But sometimes we go out. And we find clients because we're like, Okay, we have a bunch of girls who look like your typical California Girls. And for me, a California girl is not blond hair, blue eyes, just like, she looks like she serves in skateboards, and she's in the sun every day. And so I, I wanted to make sure that I was talking to people about their bodies also, in a way that was positive, because although I don't talk to talent about their bodies, they come to me with their own concerns, you know, or Yeah, lose five pounds so that I can do Fashion Week, should I do X, Y, and Z, blah, blah, like so many different questions like that. And I sometimes have to answer these questions. For example, I had a model who wanted to do swim week, and she told me, What should I do? And I said they hire models of Every Size. But you know, like, you're a little shorter than they asked for, in what's it called, in the, in the specifications. So like, I just have to be real with you for that, I'm not going to send you on every single casting because I don't want to waste your time. And I don't want to upset people who don't want someone who's five, five coming to their casting, you know. And I think also when we're talking about Kerber Plus models, there's a lot of clients who have this very idealistic image in their mind of a curve model, that, you know, they're like, the women in skins who don't have stomachs, or who size magic magically don't touch, or who've got a perfectly round bomb, I mean, with all sizes, but especially with curve. And I think that's so unrealistic. And that's also very toxic and damaging to women who are curvy, and especially to men where this topic is just started to come up with men who don't have six packs, you know what I mean, and look like a six, three cut. I don't know, professional.
Katelyn:
Men are not immune from this. I just wrote a post on this the other day, like I it's obviously more targeted towards women, we feel it more intensely because of the culture that we're in. But I'm sure you know, firsthand, being around men who are in positions like this. That is, it is also a problem in the male culture, the gay culture, all of like, if you're living in America and diet culture, you're feeling it on some level, but especially.
Val:
Yeah, for sure. So I mean, just not being a part of that conversation with my talent, I think has been very important. And a lot of them have built their own followings around, you know, positive body image. So just convincing clients that that's more important than the image that you had off of skins of Curb women all looking at a certain way, like her audience really responds to her. And so that's who you should have in your campaign for that reason.
Katelyn:
I love that. Why is it so important to you? What's your mission when you have an off day or something feels super tough? What keeps you going?
Val:
Yeah, I mean, I think with both my companies with Role Models, and with Rif Care, it's really about women's health. It's really about people's health in general. But we need to look at ourselves a different way, in order to be able to show up in the world, and actually make a positive change. I don't think it's possible to be so tied up into the culture as it is today, and be healthy. You know, because you we hear things from so many different perspectives, you really have to find your own truth, and, and then build your community, your business, your personality, based on that if we're just, you know, tagging our personalities to what's trendy in body image, or what new product is dropped from a new celebrity. That is a door that is forever evolving, it's not stable enough to, to hang on to.
Katelyn:
Yeah, sustainability. That's like one of my favorite words from the past year that I really lean on. And I think it's amazing that you have founded a company in a section of the entertainment industry that needs it so deeply. Tell us about your other company. I would love to just hear where this even started from what it is and a little bit more about your passion and your work with this next opportunity.
Val:
Yeah, so with Rif Care, that is a first-of-its-kind period brand and we make period products made out of hemp fiber, and it's hemp fiber that otherwise would have been, you know, burned gone to the landfill. It's organic. And so what we do is it's a sexual wellness brand besides just being a period brand, but we make our 100% plant-based period care. We just launched into Erawan this week, which is super exciting. I launched it in May, May 2022. And I really want to open up you know people Other people's minds to the fact that even with some of the natural care brands, we're still using unsustainable products, we're still using, you know, supply chains that are broken. And hemp is just something that's never been used in period care before. And it's a great alternative as a basket fiber. So how can we, how can we spread the message to women that there are more solutions than what are out there. And they're actually better, more comfortable solutions, and one of them is Rif Care.
Katelyn:
I love that. Where did the idea come from?
Val:
Probably just traveling for a really long time with my ex who worked in hemp a lot. And I saw all these different applications for, for fiber, I think, you know, when you're in a relationship with someone, you should be learning from them. That's number one. If I cannot learn from you, there is no point in us being together. And that is like no cap. You know what I mean? Like I can't, can't be in a relationship with someone who's stagnant or just comfortable going through the nine to five coming home and putting up their feet and watching TV and drinking a beer. So my ex was building factories, were traveling the world we were living in Portugal. And he was working with some of the biggest companies in the world like the h&m and the Zara's. And I was just seeing how they were innovating and fiber and technology. And I thought this is a place that has not been innovated, feminine care. I mean, of course, there's reusable, which I love. I'm also making period panties. There's this there's cups, but eight out of every 10 purchases pad. So how can we make pads better, so it's not going to stop because of religious reasons. And because of women's age and comfortability and the ease of pads, I don't see that market really shifting too much in the next five decades. So how can we make it better? And that was really the reason for the brand.
Katelyn:
So cool. Can you buy it online as well, too? I'm assuming that you can, but I know you mentioned Erawan, but not everyone out there.
Val:
Erewhon we're also on Amazon Prime, which we just launched two weeks ago.
Katelyn:
Very cool. Okay, before we wrap up, I want to close out with something that you actually said in our email communication, which is you're just the aspect that comparison is the thief of joy. And when I read that in the email that you sent before we booked you on the show. I was like yes, that is something that has been on my mind. So presently this past year, it's been a major checking point. For me personally, whenever I'm experiencing a lack of joy always checking to see where I'm comparing, you know, whether it's a former version of myself, the future version of myself, somebody else in my life, something else in my life. What does it mean to you?
Val:
There are women looking at me thinking I wish I had a baby. And then I'm looking at women wishing I think I had, I wish I had a husband. And then other women are, you know, with their husbands wishing that they were divorced. So it's just like a never ending negative loop. When you compare yourself to people, we all have something that we want to change. And so if you just try to have positive change in your own life, but not try to catch up to someone else's, I think that's for me when the change happened. And hopefully for other people when they get out of that, you know, we're keeping up with the Joneses. Putting yourself into debt to be like someone else just it's very, very negative for me. And so I have to just competition with myself.
Katelyn:
Yeah, what's one of the best ways that you do that? How do you really show up for yourself or take care of yourself whenever you find yourself slipping into comparison?
Val:
Yeah, I do try to get active a few days a week. And every morning I wake up pretty much I do my my reading and my writing. But I feel like when I do things for myself, I get less focused on social media. I'm on social media more than I've ever been because I started doing Tik Tok, and it's going pretty well for me. So I'm just kind of riding that wave right now. But I used to delete Instagram, Monday through Friday, I download it on Friday, I post Friday, Saturday, like to photos. And then I would log off, I feel like that really saved me or I'd go on Instagram on my computer for work a lot. If I could really post and engage the way I used to. So for me, I mean, if you're trying to grow your brand, you do need to be on socials. But you have to set boundaries with it so that it doesn't make you crazy. It can't really you have to be in control of it. And put limits time limits on your apps, even if you weren't and you know how long you've been on them.
Katelyn:
It’s so interesting talking about social media and comparison because I feel like that is just like such a cesspool for comparison, and it's hard to get away from it on social media, but I think the ideas that you just shared are so helpful and really I've found that to be true for myself to just really having my heart and soul fixated on things that really bring me joy in my life that don't even have anything to do with my work at all and are just hobbies that are, are fun for me and people that fill me up too. So, Val, this has been so amazing. I appreciate your truth and everything that you're doing in this world. I'm so excited to see where you go and everything that you accomplish, and I'm just so grateful that we had this conversation. So thank you from the bottom of my heart and where can everybody connect with you and also reach out if they're interested in either working with you in some capacity on either of your businesses or just following along?
Val:
Yeah, @malibu_mama, on Tik Tok and also on Instagram.
Katelyn:
Amazing. Love it. Thank you so much. You are awesome.
Val:
Thank you for having me.
