Episode 111: Redefining Makeup with Undone Beauty Founder Ann Somma
Episode 111: Redefining Makeup with Undone Beauty Founder Ann Somma
In this episode we sit down with....Ann Somma.
Founder of Undone Beauty, formerly of Real Techniques and EOS. Undone Beauty works to break down barriers in the beauty industry, undoing traditional beauty ideals; promoting self-acceptance; and featuring its products on real, unretouched people of all shapes, sizes, skin tones, and ages. They're priced affordably, which also impacts their ability to redefine the role of makeup + beauty as a tool for self-appreciation, versus an "aspirational" vision.
In this conversation we talk about:
Self expression through beauty, art, and in personal relationships
Ann’s personal experience of mentorship in her career that advocated for her strengths are beyond her body and beauty
What fuels her fire for the accessibility and inclusivity behind Undone Beauty
Shifting the focus from a flawless, perfectionistic desired aesthetic to encouraging customers to not hide behind their products
The intentionality behind Undone Beauty’s partnership & collaboration with Project HEAL
Advice for navigating your relationship with beauty and the beauty industry in general
Connect with our guest...
Resources we mention in this episode…
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TRANSCRIPTION Episode 111: Redefining Makeup with Undone Beauty Founder Ann Somma
Katelyn:
All right, Ann Somma. Hi. Welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
Ann:
Yeah, my pleasure.
Katelyn:
So excited about meeting you in this conversation and all the things we are wise, like, guys, all the things are jumping into, let's just get into it. So the first question that we ask everybody on the show is your first body awareness moment. So, when you think about that, what comes up, I'd love for you to just paint the picture for us of that moment where you realized I'm in a body, apparently, this means something in the world that I'm living in. And also, how that moment shapes your relationship with your body and or food moving forward.
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, because it was around the same age that my child is now so like that 12 or 13, sort of time where obviously, I think, probably so many people have that. Especially as a, as a, you know, as a, as a girl, as a woman, I, it was a time where I kind of realized, like, people around me were evolving into these bodies that were desirable, or the right, quote, unquote, kind of bodies. And, you know, my body was different. And, you know, they're really, in my mind at the time. And I guess I feel blessed by this, but I didn't feel or think that there was anything I could do about it. And I think that gave me like a feeling of not having control. And I did develop some habits and some, like, ways of thinking that were not healthy, I'm sure that looking back that were related to that feeling of not having control. But they, those habits didn't really relate to my body, I just remember feeling, and it's a feeling I still have to this day of like, this is just going to be what it's going to be. And I'm going to have to deal with, like, the form that I came to this earth in, and I'm not gonna, I'm not going to be able to, like I'm not ever going to be XYZ, like this other kind of look or body that I, of course wanted to have, right, but and I still feel that way to this day. I think we probably all have things like that, but But yeah, I just remember that feeling of being like, Okay, this is what people are what women are supposed to look like, and this is what I look like. And those two things are not on the same page.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. What specifically, you said that you felt like your body was different for you? What did you feel like was the most different?
I mean, I was just like, and I still really am, like, I was never, when everyone else like develop this, like feminine body type. I just like never really got the Goddess. Like, I always had a body like, you know, that I guess would be considered. You know, when you're that age, like you look like a boy still. And I think like I remember being like I have this very distinct memory of, of Guns and Roses Appetite for Destruction, like being the biggest album ever. And everyone was waiting for Guns and Roses to like, put out another album. And I remember thinking to myself, well, like, they're going to put out another album by this end of this summer, and I'm going to have boobs too. Like, either of those things ever happened. And, you know, I did just kind of like again, I mean, I never I think looking back now, if I had been a teen in this era, I think I would have been maybe had a worse experience. Because when I was that age like it we didn't live in a world of social media. And the worst thing that could happen to me quote unquote, the worst thing would be like, Oh, I had to put on a bathing suit at a party or Oh, I had to, you know, wear something for gym class that like I felt uncomfortable in. There wasn't this pressure to be like Like always having photos of yourself and like, I just feel so grateful that I didn't grow up in that in the times that we have now, because that pressure to, to show yourself visually all the time, I think must be very, very hard for the many, many people in this world, if not everybody who feels like their body is not, quote unquote, the ideal.
Katelyn:
I think about that a lot as well to just the pressures that adolescents face today with social media. And I mean, just the lineup of shows that are on TV during this time. And also, it's, it's so interesting, too, because every generation has their own version of comparison. Right. So I, for me, I doubt I doubt that girls today at least I hope this isn't the case. But I doubt girls today are getting a copy of Victoria's Secret magazine in the mail and like bringing it to their bedrooms and comparing themselves in the mirror. They don't have to do that, because they have Instagram at their fingertips, you know, but that I think we all have, we all have the things that exist. For us. That breeds this comparison and lack of self worth and and all of these things. And I mean, that's a result of debt diet culture, it'll manifest in any way that it's yeah, it's meant to. But I hear you, I think that we're up against an even bigger challenge right now with social media, and just how that is breeding just this new version of comparison. How did you get to this place that you just described, of acceptance with your body, because you also mentioned that you form some habits and behaviors that weren't helpful around this discomfort that you were experiencing in your body? So what, what time in your life? What chapter in your life did you start to develop a more accepting approach to the body that you're in?
Ann:
You know, I think even in like early high school, I was really very lucky because I had friends that were very different body types. And they all had their struggles in different ways. And it was like, looking at my close friends who, to me, like I would have died to have their bodies. And of course, they were so frustrated. And so upset, because they had a different experience, which was an experience again, so many people have where they were only 1314 15 years old, we lived in I grew up in a city, like a major city, and they were, you know, walking down the street, and they, they were being catcalled, or, or worse. So I think it all it really gave me like, perspective, right? That like we all have fun frustrations and like things that we wish were different about ourselves. And I think that we were it was like, healthy for us all to be friends together. And because we were all sort of like very different people, we look very different. And it just, we kind of had each other's back in that way. And it's really hard to go down a rabbit hole about yourself when your friend who looks like your ideal body is going rabbit down a rabbit hole about herself. And I also think I was really lucky that I had and I think about this all the time for like young people in my life now. Like I had a really nice boyfriend when I was in high school, like a nice guy. And it's remarkable how those first experiences that you have can set you on a course for life. So shout out to that guy.
Katelyn:
Totally. Well, I mean, I think that's so interesting that you notice that in the development of yourself. So is there anything that stood out to you about that relationship and just how it shaped the way that you view yourself and your beliefs about yourself?
Ann:
I mean, I think it sounds so corny, but like we were, we were really good friends, too. Right? Like we were of course we were in love and we were like 16 years old or whatever, but like we were really good friends we loved hanging out together. He like really respected me and thought I was like, interesting and cool. And I wrote him poems, and he read the poems like, and everything else about growing up and having, like those experiences that you want to have to be like, Oh, I did this or I, you know, like, we, we did those, we had experiences together, but they were really together, you know, and I think that's, it's so, so hard I there, but for the grace of God, like I so easily could have had a different experience because I was in a big rush to, you know, to be feminine, and have those experiences and be desirable, and like, all of those things. And, and, you know, I just was, I really just think I got lucky that I found somebody who was like, respectful and, and a genuinely good person, because it's so easy to just, you know, sort of define yourself by like, oh, I had this experience, quote, unquote, like, oh, a guy, or whoever, you know, you, you want to find you attractive, like, this person found me attractive. So like, great, you know, I did this thing. And I think that's, you know, it's understandable. But again, like, those first experiences are so important. And if you have somebody who sees you as more than just that experience, it kind of, you know, hopefully sets you on a course to remember that that should be how it is.
Katelyn:
It's massively influential. And that's so incredible that you were kind of taught that from an early age, even by way of, of this one person, I'm, I'm sure there's probably other environmental factors that were at play. But I mean, you're so impressionable as adolescents in middle school and high school, that's, you know, even in college, we're really developing our, our self worth or values or identities in really nuanced ways. And I think that's so important, what you're mentioning, and also really interesting that your first body awareness moment, was, like most, most people wanting to feel like you fit in and valued for your beauty and your femininity, but not really achieving that in the most natural way. Like you mentioned, not really having a traditional feminine shape. And then finding yourself in this relationship where that validation wasn't being enforced, it was being reinforced through experiences, and just the person that you are outside of your, your aesthetic and just living your life together. That's so incredible. And I love hearing things like this in people's stories, because it can also go the opposite way to getting the validation and the feedback about our appearances and the identities and self worth that can be attached to that. And so how amazing that you found yourself in, in a relationship where it encouraged you to really explore who you were outside of just the skin that you have, and in your body and whatnot. So, after this relationship and getting into your 20s in your career, I know you mentioned before we hit record, you went to NYU. Before we get into this chapter of your story, how does beauty fit into your just story in general, by way of makeup? Was that something you were ever interested in?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, I always was really into, like, sort of self expression through clothing and visual things. You know, I always loved style, I think, and I had a lot of people around me growing up who had amazing style. Some of those friends that I mentioned are like so, you know, inspiring to me and like, how they dressed and like, what they chose to how they chose to do their hair and makeup. And I mean, I think I always was very fascinated with that stuff. And coming to New York, I didn't really know you know, what I wanted to do for a career like I had to obviously, you know, I I knew I wanted to like get a degree and do something in business, but I didn't really know what that was going to be and I worked actually in the art business was sort of my first career I worked in fine art like fine art photography galleries, and I think, in a weird way that also kind of reinforced my, my fascination with self expression through beauty because I was surrounded by these like images by these incredible photographers from all eras, right. And they weren't necessarily photographs of people looking traditionally beautiful, although we had those as well. But like, I was, I was always looking at faces, right. And like, I think, you know, although I didn't end up sort of staying in the art world, it definitely gave me this vast sort of archive of, of imagery and ideas about, you know, how important the way that you are seen, is, right. And that's ultimately what photography is, right is like, is being seen. And, you know, I really fell into the beauty industry, like almost by accident, I was like, selling vintage clothing. And like, I was in the music business, I was a singer and a songwriter, like I had all sorts of like, you know, sort of like, I don't know, typical post college like hustles going on. And I got a temp job working for Estee Lauder. And like Estee Lauder corporate, which had like Bobbi Brown and Lamere, and John Malone, and all these incredible beauty brands. And I mean, really, as soon as I stepped foot in that building, and like, understood what marketing and product development was in the beauty industry, which nobody had really told me that that was even like a job you could have, like, it was just like, instant, like, like, it just clicked. And I had an incredible mentor, and I just came to understand, like, oh, you can, you can make stuff like that people buy, like, you can figure out what it is. And you can figure out what people would like and you can, you know, give them whether it's fragrance or makeup or skincare or whatever you can give them things that that sort of allow them to express themselves or think about themselves in a way that makes them feel great. And it was just like off to the races from there.
Katelyn:
That's so cool. So it sounds like you have this intuitive knowing around beauty in a really radical way. Beauty almost in a sense, like you mentioned to being seen in this form of self expression. And I can really feel the fire in your belief around that. And then secondary to that understanding how to make that more available for more people.
Ann:
Yeah, for sure.
Katelyn:
That's so cool. And I'm actually interested in hearing about your mentor, because I think that's so valuable, and something that's kind of overlooked or underrated, but for you Why was that so important? And what what are some of the biggest things that stand out about finding a mentor, and this particular mentor showed up?
Ann:
You know, I mean, he was just a very successful like person in the beauty industry. And I think that and he was also like a real multi dimensional guy, like he had like a great wife and like young kids, and like he was a super great boss to us, me and my, my cohorts and like, I think that that alone is like super helpful just to have somebody who's working really hard, in an industry that you think is really cool, but also, like has an actual life too, and is a good guy or a good person. I think that helped me, you know, in measurably like in terms of like what I looked for in a job or what I look for in an opportunity because, again, those those early experiences of like who you're dealing with really are fundamental, but the main thing with him is that he you know, I didn't I was his like executive assistant basically. And like I wasn't, you know, he gave me more and more responsibility, but he, like, identified that I was in his like mind based on all the people that have come across, you know, his desk in his life. He was like, okay, this person has tapped some talent in this industry. And I didn't even know what that was right? I would have had no idea how to identify that and he, I remember like, wrote me a note. Like just like a Christmas like gift note that said you have the talent to go far in this industry. Amazing. I was like, I still have that note and yes, okay, well, that's done and done. Like, and I think it's I mean, I, you know, my life would not be what it is if he had not written that note. And I think you really realize like, as you try to make a living in this world like that, that your words are so important. And the people around you like that you have come through your work life, who are looking to like, you know, be successful in whatever they're trying to do, like they listen to your words. And I just, I try to, I don't always remember because it can be hard to remember when life is super busy, and there's so much pressure work and whatever, but like, I just am so grateful that he took the time to write that stupid note. And, you know, I try to like, see that in the people that I have around me now, too. And understand how important it is to encourage people.
Katelyn:
It's so valuable. I mean, having somebody believe in you, is everything just it is, it is such a quick way to help someone move forward. And just knowing that someone believes in you, it just if you're open to receiving that, which is what I really caught from this part of your story is that you set yourself up to be able to receive that note in a way where you believed it, you know, like by welcoming this mentor, and by seeking this type of mentorship out, it wasn't it doesn't sound like it was just like a random little note that was sent in the mail where it was kind of like, well, what was this? Why?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, it was interesting, too, because I had a lot of I think a lot of people come out, I mean, maybe not so much now, but like back in the day, you would kind of come out of college, and you would like go into your career field, and that would be what you did. But I had like, a whole career in the art business. Like where I worked in galleries, and I was like, on sort of on track to become like, a, you know, a gallerist essentially, like a salesperson, somebody in the fine art world. And I was not good at that job. Like I'm, I'm not really an extrovert, like, and I had so many connections in the art world and amazing people supporting me, but like, it just wasn't for me. And it was painful to realize, like, wow, you just sunk like three years of your of your life into this, which is a long time when you're young, like into this career path, that ultimately is not going to be your thing. And when I went to latar, it was sort of like, starting over of like, okay, what the heck am I gonna do with my life. And I think it was helpful, that I had already closed, closed some doors, like, not in a negative way, but that I had already realized, like, okay, there's certain, like, you need to be in a in a job or career where your, your, your ideas are important. And you're coming up with creative ideas, and you're, like, valued for articulating like concepts and versus, you know, a career where you're, you know, you need to be kind of focused on like making connections and building like a large social circle and things like that, because that really wasn't my thing. And so I think I was much more open to like, a new path and support because I had already gone down a path that didn't work. You know what I mean?
Katelyn:
Yeah, well, I think that's so valuable. Just identifying your strengths and what you like and what you like, and deciding, really just being intentional with decisions rather than straddling the line constantly in your career. I think that's also a way for for people to move quickly in life. In whatever way you can think about to be successful, whether it's relationships or careers or just healing processes and whatnot, just making small but powerful decisions when that's possible. I'm really interested in your views around beauty and femininity in this industry during the time because I'm, I'm kind of listening to your story thinking well, is there any dissonance here from just the lingering beliefs that you had had as as a kid and in high school before getting into the beauty industry because it sounds like you You are very clear on identifying beauty in terms of this awesome, creative, artistic form of self expression. But this is also a really traditional beauty industry that has a different interpretation of that. So how did you kind of navigate that?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I feel like I sort of chose a path in the industry. That was, like, I sort of forged a path in the industry that that started to, like, make it what I wanted it to be. Right. Like, I always saw beauty, as you know, when I worked at Estee Lauder, like Estee Lauder owns Mac, and of course, like, you know, Mac has, has, I think, has done it, from very early on been been a supporter of self expression, regardless of gender identity, or any of you know, sort of cultural norms. And so I always had this sense of like, this can be this industry, and this product can be whatever you want it to be. And as long as you know, put a vision together that makes like financial sense, like, you don't have to follow any, like, rules, per se. And, you know, for me, like, it's always been, I've always just been very focused on making things that are a team attainable to a lot of people, I think that was like, probably more of a driver to me than anything related to aesthetics or anything like that. Because once you have the thing you can do with it what you want, you know, like, if you want to wear lipstick, by all means, like, if there's, there's no, the main thing for me was like, was, was that I've always been very driven to be working at a price point that I thought was, like, attainable to a the largest number of people possible. And I think I've always felt that, as long as I did that, that I was, like, good with good with what I was doing. Like, I think I love luxury brands. And I, I think that extraordinary quality, especially in things like perfume, I mean, there's a reason why things are $300 Plus, and I have so much respect for that process. But for me, I've just always been really driven to like, give the largest number of people possible, access to something that makes them feel good, in whatever way they decide to use it.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. So that's really interesting, because one of the things that I love about your mission at undone beauty, which we'll get into how you started that in just a moment, I have a million questions that I want to ask. But one of the things that I love so much is you have this really thoughtful, radical mission around how how you are making beauty accessible to everyone, but also inspiring beauty tools in a different way more in a self acceptance way, self expression, versus from this place of not enough or to just kind of feeding into the patriarchal attention grabbing male gaze that so many, so many beauty companies do unintel You know, kind of subconsciously. But you're very intentional about what your message is and what your mission is with that. So how did you arrive there? And why? Why was that so important to you beyond just making it accessible for everybody at a price point, but really wanting to offer this encouragement and new idea of what beauty products can mean for somebody?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, because I think this is why you're so good at what you do. Because I'm like, wait, I just realized something that I don't think I ever thought of before. I think you know, first of all, there are there are other brands that I think Do you know similar things to what we do and do it so well. And so I mean, I do think there's a revolution going on in beauty and I think that it's you know many brands have been involved in it. Many influencers have been involved in it right. There's so many people who, you know, without their their sort of bravery to like get Behind the camera on YouTube and be themselves, like, we would not have the booming industry that we have right now. So I think, you know, we're lucky to be in a time of, like, kind of a revolution. And I think there's so many people who've participated in it, and I'm just, I'm happy that we can play a small part as well. But I think for me, like one of the things that really inspired on done is that I like one of the things that people don't kind of prepare you for really, in life is like, as you get older, you really do. Like, I have this whole other sort of similar, I mean, not not, I shouldn't speak for everybody, I had this whole other kind of, and arguably, I'm still having it like, transition in a similar way. Like as you as you go from being like a little girl, right? Just a child to like a young woman or, you know, teen young woman, and people start to look at you in a different way and to desire you in a different way. A similar thing happens as you get older, where the the gaze like shifts, and I think I felt personally, sort of I don't want to say excluded, because that's not the right that would be me, me feeling a certain way, the certainly no brand was intentionally excluding me, they would have any brand would gladly take my money. Right. I mean, like, try to keep me out of there, out of their assortment, but like, I did feel a little bit. Like, as I left New York City, as I became, you know, like, sort of older 30s, like, into my 40s, I was kind of like, what is this? Who is talking to me? Like, what is this? Where do I go for, like, things that I like and want that don't assume that because I'm older, I have a lot more money. And I think that was a bit of an intersection for me where I was like, Wait a second, like, how come there isn't anything that's like, has a nice aesthetic that's like that, I want to like put on my counter that looks like to me in my mind, like fresh and cool. But like, that doesn't have this sort of like, I don't know, this feeling of like, this is for this age, younger age, this this type of face or this younger face. And that was part of what kind of inspired me I think is like, I didn't want to wear a lot of makeup. I didn't want to spend a lot on makeup. And but I still wanted cool makeup. And it was that simple thing that I was like, You know what I like, I'm just gonna make what I want. Like, that's something that's sort of like, universally, hopefully, like, universally appealing, and cool and a good price and really, like innovative and like, does things that I wanted to do and is like multitasking so I can kind of like dial it up or down, depending on my, you know, am I going to the grocery store? Am I going to New York City for a meeting? Am I going out to dinner like, and with all of that in mind, I just sort of was lucky enough to be able to put it all together and make something.
Katelyn:
Yeah, so how did you do that?
Ann:
Well, I wasI mean, again, like I'm I have an entrepreneurial story. But I've also been in the beauty industry since I was whatever in my mid 20s. So I have you know, worked for big companies and I've also worked for companies that were startups and so the process of having like a structure in which to innovate, right so sort of like entrepreneur and residents type of thing is something that I became very accustomed to from being in product development and in in the companies that I've worked for along the way so I you know, I work for a bigger company. And that I've worked for for 10 years called True fragrance and beauty and we do a lot of creating of brands whether it's for you know ourselves basically like a brand like on done that we own ourselves or for for other like for retailers or for other people. And so in essentially I was basically like an entrepreneur residence within the company and was able to create and test a brand with a team of people right I mean, it's I I kind of, in some ways represent the brand but I'm certainly not the brand like there's so many people involved in making all of this happen and we were just you know, we had some some port at the beginning from you know, we work with Amazon right at the beginning because they were looking to to bring more beauty brands onto their platform. And that actually kind of gave us the boost that we needed because we knew we could launch on Amazon with some guidance and support from them. And, but, you know, essentially like any other brand, like, I had some backing, I put the assortment together, I put it out in the world. People bought some things, they didn't buy other things, we changed some of the pricing, we got rid of some of the products like it was kind of an evolution. And now we're, we're four years old. So we've, we've grown up a bit, but yeah, I'll tell everybody, what I'm done is because it really, it is an amazing company. And I think the products are great, and I love the vision and the community that you have in your companies.
Katelyn:
So beyond just wanting to create something for somebody like yourself, where you didn't really see it existing, what fuels the fire for the accessibility and inclusivity and your commitment to just really natural untouched photos and representation and all of these things. And maybe you can, like I mentioned, just explain what undone beauty is for everybody as well, too.
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, we are, you know, our mission is really to, to offer products that do more with less, right, so we have a very streamlined assortment of, I would say sort of makeup and now a little bit like skincare hybrid products and the price point is eight to 20. So, you know, we do try to offer something that has clean ingredients, which clean is clean is an ever evolving term. You know, we use altos guidelines, amongst others is like our kind of definition of clean, and vegan and cruelty free and innovative within a you know, what would be considered I still like a mass quote unquote price point, I think those terms are kind of going away, but we do try to keep it in a place that is for the product for the level of quality of the product, very, very good value. And, you know, when we thought about this idea of this, sort of minimalist assortment of, of beauty products that you could use, kind of, regardless of your age, your gender orientation, like, it just became really obvious, like if we're going to make something that is this multitasking, and this universal. Of course, everything that we do, and everyone that we work with has to kind of go along with that vision. So the unretouched thing was like, super obvious from the get go, like, I just wouldn't have done it any other way. Because the formulations and the way that you use the product is such that it's not meant to kind of cover anything up, like you could kind of die again dial it up or down. So it was always important to kind of show it like really an action on real skin. And then I think even with you know, kind of who we are lucky enough to work with and cast and to sort of represent the product on shoots and stuff. It's like, always been important to me just to have a lot of different ages, faces, gender identities, and I think we're always trying to do more of that, right, like you could always be doing more. But if you're making something that is meant to be accessible, your goal is always to showcase it in a way that as many people as possible are going to look at the pictures and be like yeah, that feels like me.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. I love what you do. It's hard to do and we always want to be doing more and I mean even as I say this, I'm like oh we could be doing so much more but what's the hardest part about it? Why is it hard to do?
Ann:
You know, I think there's a few things one is like we you know, we want to offer a smaller assortment of products in a positive way of like having it be more minimal and not not necessarily making you feel like you have so many things to choose from. But our formulas are very wearable, but at the same time, like we're always pushing to have more shade inclusivity. And with more shade inclusivity, you have a larger assortment, you have more inventory, your retailers have to give you more space. And so you're always kind of pushing that boundary of like, I want to have some, I really want to be able to have somebody walk in this store or come to this website and find something that really works for them. But to do that, I have to also make this assortment work. Like from a space from an inventory standpoint, from a price standpoint. So I mean, I think we're doing a good job, but it's something that I'm thinking about every single day.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, a, I can completely understand the challenge. And it's it's such an interesting balancing act, to your point of really staying within integrity of your commitment to what you're curating while also having the inclusivity piece continue to evolve as well to how to really balance those things. One thing that I also love that you just said is that your makeup isn't, isn't for covering up. So what is it for?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, it can be if you want it to be. But like, I think I've noticed for myself that I think like I also, we didn't even go down this road, but I also had like, really, quote unquote bad skin in my 20s. I had like adult acne, like I never had bad skin when I was a teenager, but I got it when I was in my 20s. And I've always felt like if you if you truly cover up your skin completely, like all of your blemishes, all your imperfections that it like, it sometimes makes you feel worse. And I think that sometimes to other people, it's like, I'm looking at makeup, I'm not looking at the person. And we all have imperfections in our skin, every single person like it, I mean, there's so few people on this earth who have like flawless skin. And so for me, I've always wanted to have like things that like could cover up enough that also were sheer enough that you could still see like the texture of skin show through. Because especially when you have like problematic skin, it's almost easier to just sort of like pick and choose what you're covering than to try to cover it all because it's just going to look very, very makeup B. So that's more my personal aesthetic. But like I've always gone out of my way to find like, coverage makeup where I could do like similar coverage in some areas, but more shear and other areas. And that's kind of why we made the concealer the way that we did because I was like putting together compacts and items from like backstage makeup. Like to like try to put together a palette that worked to cover like the acne that I had, but then also let the rest of my skin show through. The overall look was more like a real human being and not just like makeup.
Katelyn:
So it sounds like you're shifting the focus, which is so incredible to me, you're taking it away from this perfectionistic desired aesthetic of everything, just being flawless to really encouraging people to not hide and to express themselves. But one thing that is so amazing and how you're doing this and is you really are building this community around your products and how you're representing that community, through your marketing and your website, and just all of the things and what's so cool. This is why I love talking to founders and hearing their stories that makes complete sense to me just all of these life moments that you just shared with us. Having these great group of friends who express themselves in completely different ways giving you permission to express yourself your relationship that you were in with your boyfriend in high school who really encouraged you to express yourself in life without attaching your worth to to your beauty, your mentorship in your career just really advocating for what your strengths are beyond just your body and your beauty and all of these things and that really shows up to me In the makeup that you're creating for your community and for the world, just really giving people the space to discover themselves in these products rather than hiding behind them. So I think I think that's just incredible, something that's deeply needed right now. And also, such a beautiful reflection of your own wisdom in birthing this company.
Ann:
Thank you. It's so it is amazing to hear those things all strung together, because it does. The narrative does make sense. I mean, I've of course had many, many stumbles and other you know, stories along the way. But yeah, I mean, there's so much room out there in this industry, like, if you want to have a flawless face, like there's, I have makeup artists on YouTube that I absolutely worship that can show you how to do the most incredible, transformative makeup. Like, there's, there's room for that, too. But I think I'm just proud that we're kind of offering a choice. That's, that is very much about putting a sort of putting yourself letting yourself show through.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I love the way that you said that. And you partner with Project HEAL, which Rebecca has been on the show, and they're incredible partner of our podcasts, too, we love them. So how did that partnership and collaboration come to be?
Ann:
Well, we were very lucky, we had somebody that worked for us sort of identify Project HEAL as a potential partner. And, you know, I think when it comes to finding those philanthropic partnerships, like it can be so hard to choose, because there's so many incredible causes. And when we came across project he'll and what they were doing to kind of break down barriers, obviously, around garnering support for eating disorders for a wider array of people and kind of undoing those, those outdated ideas of like, who has an eating disorder and, and who can get treatment, I think it just resonated so much with what we try to do in terms of, you know, beauty industry norms. And, and also, like, it's something that you know, eating disorders are something that affects so many people that also think about, you know, aesthetics and makeup. And I think that intersection really made a lot of sense for us. And we, we've, we've seen it kind of play out in the sense that like, if Rebecca and I jump on a live together, or you know, when we do kind of remind people like if you buy this, this shade of blush, 100% of proceeds go to Project HEAL, people will share their stories with us. And the idea that our community which is talking about makeup, 24/7 can also provide a reminder or access to all that project to has to offer, in terms of resources for getting help for eating disorders is like to meet so incredible, and I'm just so proud to work with them. Because I think what they do is amazing,
Katelyn:
Same I love I love Project HEAL and their their commitment and their mission. And I think it's such a fabulous collaboration that the two of you have together. So since you are on the undone beauty side of that collaboration, for anybody who's listening to this conversation, who is struggling with their relationship with their body, whether it's body dysmorphia, or their relationship with food that's manifesting from an aesthetic perspective, who is really being challenged by some of these beauty norms and looking to find a more peaceful approach to using makeup and whatnot, what what advice would you give them? How would you encourage them to go about navigating their relationship with beauty and just beauty industry? The beauty industry in general?
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, I think so much of what you said goes way deeper than aesthetics. Right. So, I mean, one of the things about Project HEAL for us is like that they offer those deeper resources because you know, it isn't just about like, changed your Instagram feed so that you don't look at things. There's, it's the process of evolving your sense of self worth and all The things that are integral to that, from an aesthetic point of view is so much deeper than makeup, or what you look at or any of those things. I mean, I think if I were to touch on it on a, on a more surface level, I would say that, like, the real people in your life are the people who like, to have always been my aesthetic inspiration, right, like, and I think having people that you admire, on a deeper level is, to me has always been a source of inspiration, when I feel that self doubt, or that frustration, or that irrelevance, or whatever it may be, I'm able to like, turn my mind turn the channel of my mind to, to, like, the work the the, the impact that people that I really respect have made. And realize that none of that has anything to do with like, what you look like, yes. I mean, and that mindfulness, that journey, and that's what I mean, about, like, the resources are so much deeper like that, that practice of mindfulness and being able to change the channel is a lifelong practice that I certainly have not mastered. But, but and it's, and it's, it's hard. It's, every single day, we all are faced with a million things that, you know, ask us to compare ourselves to aesthetically or otherwise. And having a sense of self that can rise above that is really just, it's, it's, it's not a it's not a thing that you're born with, or you're not right. It's, it's a lifelong practice of finding that peace within yourself. And, you know, when all else fails, you just have to go back to the practice.
Katelyn:
Yeah, I love it, you went there. And I think that is, it's so important for this conversation. And in relation to beauty in general, because, yes, we need to, we need to shout out from the rooftops and advocate for that as much as possible that healing our relationship with food, our body ourselves, it, it runs really deep, it's complex, it's layered. And it really is largely related to our self worth. And that more of the surface, surface, things are helpful, but we've got to get to the root of what's really happening. And when we do, the thing that's so cool about what you're doing is it it allows for this different relationship with beauty, and how you how you take care of yourself, and just one of many relationships that you have in your life, I consider your relationship with beauty, a relationship and how you actually want to treat that and what that what you're making it mean or not mean about you and for me, and I can say this from personal experience to really doing deep healing work around my own eating disorder, self worth stuff, all of the things it has, it has allowed me to think about, well, what does makeup and skincare and all of this stuff mean to me? How do I want to use it as a tool to express and to create and have fun and play rather than something to hide behind or enhance or get attention or seek value or all of these things? And so that is I think it's such a great compliment how you are creating the space for that to exist for people who are going through their own healing journey and beyond as well too, because not everybody who buys your products is going to have an eating disorder but the partnerships that you're creating with products heal really does. It's created a nice bridge for that. It looks like so there's just so much here. There's so much valuable value that's possible.
Ann:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a Like, for me, it's makeup has always been like a little bit of a self care thing, like, a ritual to kind of sit down and like, look at every single one of your eyelashes or, you know, like, and I think it's, it's it should bring you it should bring you peace, it should be fun, it should be like, should bring you a little bit of energy and and I hope that we we offer something that does that. But I also know that it's just one thing out of a million things that relate to how you feel when you walk out the door every day.
Katelyn:
Mm hmm. Totally. But it's it's one important thing. You know, it's, it's valuable in so many different ways. Okay, a couple questions. Before we wrap up that are more fun. I'd love to hear your favorite makeup tips, like one of your favorite or to perhaps have your favorite hacks that if and just what you think not necessarily what you think would be the most interesting to this community. But what are your one or two favorite hacks that you love or on makeup?
Ann:
Okay, well, so what is this very funny, but it does kind of relate to like looking at every single eyelash is, I really do find that if you when you do your mascara, if you do like a lot of extra mascara on your outer lashes. Like you're literally go and look for that last like couple lashes that are like hiding back there, that it totally can transform your eye look. So, you know, everybody's like doing like, you know, false lashes, and like lash extensions and all that stuff. And so I think, you know, you kind of like when you look around sometimes you're like, wow, half of these people have all these eyelashes. It's like, well, they went to a salon and somebody glued them on. That's how and I cannot do that stuff. Like I've had lash extensions that it gave me the worst. And this has nothing to do with lash extensions. They're totally fine. But like for me, it just gave me a horrible eye infection. So like, I'm like, that's not an option for me. So I got to work with what I have. And it's just funny that you don't realize that if you really like make an effort on those outer lashes that like suddenly you look like you have like 10 times lusher longer and your eyes are like popping cool. That's one thing the other thing that I like have done forever and absolutely love doing is like lining your whole upper lash line like all the way from the inside all the way to the outside. And I think like there's so much I don't know people are always doing so many things but eyeliner like cat's eye and eye shadow and whatever that if you literally just take like a brown you know pan or brown eyeshadow and you line the whole like upper lash line. It's creates so much definition around your eyes, but it also looks very natural and like simple much more so than like lining your bottom lashes and I that's more of like a makeup artist trick like I feel like I've never had my makeup done by a professional makeup artists that who didn't do my entire upper lash line, like really tight line. And just those little things like I feel so lucky that I work with all these people who are I mean I make makeup but I don't I'm not a makeup artist, like far from it. And so every time I'm around one I'm like oh my God tell me your magic tricks. So for sure. I love it.
Katelyn:
What are your two favorite products well in the world or just from Undone.
Ann:
Our lip to cheek palettes which are just cream like lip sort of like blush and lip in one. The formula is so like beautiful. I mean it just on all skin types. It just brings out this like beautiful dewiness and it's very sort of buildable and transformative. Like there's three different opacities so you can do like a super, like super opaque like more like a lipstick tent, or you can do a super dewy blush. And they're just they're really big and they're very for the size that they are as compared to so many cream blushes out there. They're they're like a very good price point. So we're very, very proud of them. And then we have a this sort of like lip oil lip balm like hybrid formula that if you've ever like like I love having a glossy lip but I do not really like lip gloss, like I find it to be sticky and like weird. But I'm also like a lip balm fiend like I always want moisture. So we kind of like put all those things together and made this thing that we call Poppa gloss. And it's like hybrid lip gloss formula. And people seem to love it. So that's awesome. You worked.
Katelyn:
You know, it's so funny, I actually love sticky lip gloss, and I didn't realize that most people don't. Until recently.
Ann:
It has a place in the world like, it's like, when it's sticky like that, like it's for a reason it's to its to its to have it be like very shiny and glossy for a long time. So I don't have any no hate to this sticky lip gloss, like it definitely has a place in the world. But ours is, is just a little bit more of a lip oil balm, like I love that.
Katelyn:
It sounds fabulous. It sounds like it feels really good on your lips, too. So I'm excited to try. What's your vision for your company? So in the next, just how you actually want to continue carving out your seat and the beauty industry? What do you hope to achieve? Where do you want to go? What are some things you're really excited about?
Ann:
Um, I mean, there's a few things like one is I just, we we want to be constantly like evolving are like what it means to be clean, right. So always like looking at what, like how to kind of evolve the formulations to be the best that they can be. We're in the process of being certified halal, which halaal is obviously like a very high standard of product quality. That's, that's especially related to the Muslim faith, but but it also just is like a sort of ingredient transparency process that is very, very stringent. And the idea that we can both be like a brand that somebody who is a practicing Muslim who who, for whom halaal is an important certification for food and for other things in their lifestyle that we could be certified. Under that is like something that makes me so excited and proud. But also because it means that all of our factories have been like thoroughly audited. So things like that are like super important to me of just keeping, like, pushing the brand forward on all cylinders of like accessibility, and also like transparency and and formulation. So we're super excited about that. And I think, you know, we do have I'd like to spread our message to more countries, and expanding internationally is, is a big, big, like step for brands, there's so much more involved in it than I think people realize. I think sometimes people think that it's just like, oh, it's expensive to ship there, or it's expensive to you know, whatever, find retailers, but it's the registration process and all of that is actually really long and really expensive. So I hope that in the coming like year or so that we will be able to offer the product to more people in more places. That would make me extremely proud. And, you know, just building the community and having you know, people know that we are listening to them and hopefully showing them like collection over collection that that we take their, their feedback seriously and that we you know, are continuing to work to try to offer more and more to more people. I think that's the vision that I hope for. And I also hope that the people that are working for this brand are satisfied in their work lives. Yeah, and like, I mean, my, my, like biggest the thing that brings me the most satisfaction is having the people that work like for the brand as well as the people that work around the brand, like the people that we hire as freelancers or photographers or whatever it may be like giving people the opportunity to earn a living doing something that they feel passionate about is like the most amazing gift that you can give somebody I think in so many ways so yeah, I hope we can continue to do that for more people.
Katelyn:
It's fabulous. I love this vision can't wait to see it come to life. You heard it here first everyone this is happening. Okay, final two questions that are just popping into my mind right now that I have to know about you when you have a bad body image day. How do you take care of yourself?
Ann:
Um The main thing for me so I have a I have a horse in my life and I'm like a horse rider and I think that is the like of taking care of somebody else. Well Whether it's an animal or a person, like is a really great way to get you outside of yourself.
Katelyn:
I love that. And what's your favorite tip for success? And just moving forward, if you were to give just one idea to somebody around cultivating that, what would it be?
Ann:
You're not going to be like, good at everything, you know you're in, you're going to, there are things that you're going to be bad at, they're going to be things that you fail at. And if you have people around you, that support you, and that and that can remind you of what you're good at. And hopefully, you can remind yourself, I think that's all you can do. I mean, every day is going to be different. And there's so many ups and downs in life and in business, especially in business. That just having that perseverance to be like okay, I'm going to get up another day I'm going to try again. Is, is really, it's really about just marching forward I think more than anything.
Katelyn:
Love that thank you for sharing thank you for being here and sharing your truth and just the the company for anybody who is already familiar and just wanted to learn more people who aren't familiar, you're really doing such incredible things in the world and so grateful for your time and what you're creating, where can everybody find you and purchase these awesome products, we'll link everything in the show notes but just shout yourself out.
Ann:
You can find us at Ulta where we have either a full assortment or an end cap assortment and also is right now which is super exciting. You can go on the store finder on undone-beauty.com and see if there's an Ulta near you that carries us or you can find us on on undonebeauty.com
Katelyn:
Awesome. Thank you so much Ann.
Ann:
Thank you this was so awesome. I had so many revelations. Yay.
Katelyn:
Fabulous. Well, I'm excited to see your next step in all of this and thank you for your amazingness today. I'll talk to you soon
